The poll pretty much says it all.

--------Why I voted YES.
You know how most people feel they should have hit/killed you when they didn't? It's partially because of how fast the speed is set on the current server. Second, I don't want to hear Beck whine anymore about all the TJers Sure, trick jumps will still happen, but not near as plentiful.

*OFF TOPIC* Since we are getting the new server transfer (soon?), perhaps some banners should be made to inform some people of the fact that we are moving, or tell them the IP (unless we don't have it yet...). Bad idea? Word of mouth works, too

I hate TJ'ers, but I'd rather keep the server with the same feel that we have now. I voted No. If the hit boxes are off, I've adjusted to them and I like the way I play on our server.

ADDENDUM:
Yes, I hate TJ'ers not because I consider it cheating or cheap or anything like that - just flat out that they ruin the map for everyone else....except for maybe their own team, but that's beside the point. How annoying to be doing a great job defending the old city on Oasis all for nothing, because someone jumped the wall and ruined the map. Annoying. Secondly, I've spec'ed Komentaja TJ'ing up the cliffs on Battery as allies attacking the bunker. Exploit, maybe. Annoying for Axis who are seemingly doing a great job defending the gun -- yes (it's so easy for allies to get a uni if Axis fuck up). Axis can blow the ramp immediatly after building, and stay off the beach and inside and never lose that map - unless some hotshot decides he's gonna climb the cliffs.

In reference to trick jumping......yes it can be an annoyance for maps to end early because of a TJ. HOWEVER, you cant claim good defense if you let someone by.

1. The last time I was on the server, I lost 7 consecutive maps.....as allies. Now with the current state of my connection, there is no reason why I should dominate like the nilla of old and win more maps.... ON THE OTHER HAND do you think I should lose 7 maps straight as allies ever? I would say no on a public server that I always thought prided itself on fairplay. The 8th map I won. My team didn't win. I won. Yes I jumped the oasis wall to do it. Yes I mined the fuck out of the axis base before I planted. And yes I killed 8 peeps trying to defuse the dyno at the guns. My point? There should be more disdain for stacked teams than there should ever be for TJing. Unfortunately the former is WAY more prevalent than that later.
And the only recourse I can take in those situations is to TJ.

2. How is not defending the wall any different than having a cvop at the door the whole map? Any regular playing on axis should know if someone on the other team can tj or not. AND THEY SHOULD DEFEND AGAINST IT. The speed on the server has allowed a much larger number of players to be able to tj. You change the speed, you should be responsible to accept any repercussions that are caused by it.

On speed:

1. It DEFINITELY has a negative effect on hitboxs in reference to corners. This is especially true on your server becuase of the percentage of 200-300 ping players on at any given point in time.

2. The perfect game would be 16 players, 8 per team, wither every single peep using the same system utilizing the same connection and the same settings. Every server would have the same configs and settings. Unfortunately this will never happen. The only thing servers can do is keep a standard across the board for settings. Speed is one of the things that help keep other server settings in check. Tweaking the speed may not seem like a bad idea, but joined with other settings (individual player settings) there will be adverse effects.

My 2 cents.

Ice

EDIT: and I voted YES. I played for 3 years stock no setting changes. I still have most of my settings on default. I like an even playing field and I don't want to be the hypocrite ruining it for everyone.

1 no vote, and 2 people saying they voted no

Well, I can tell you exactly who voted what. And I voted no.

And Nilla - your point about losing 6 maps in a row and using TJ to "save the day" because some stuck up people wouldn't shuffle the map. That's the root of the problem, stacked teams, not the ability to jump the wall or not. And in this circumstance, the "win one for the boys for morale" move of jumping the wall will be fewer and far between when the speed is lowered, you said so yourself. So then we're just back at square one - bad teams.

And a covert opening the door is not the same as an expoit in the speed or the map design. On a public server, you can't expect the team to cooperate enough to the point where "oh, nilla's on - better have someone camp the wall to prevent him from jumping". It's not realistic at all to expect that. I'll do my best as an axis engineer to stay as far back to that wall as possible, but I'm only one person, if I die and go to spec and an allied engineer runs over the top and jumps while I'm waiting to respawn, then I have no idea this just happened, and the next thing I hear is "dynamite planted". Map ruined.

Oh well, we'll never agree on this, and I know I'm in the minority on this, so no matter what I say about TJing, it's gonna be challenged by someone.

Good defense? Trickjumping? Here's my comment "Trick jumping is a glitch that was unexpectedly discovered in the quake engine and has been used as an exploit".

Trickjumping may be allowed on IoW, but it is what is it is. A glitch, it was not intended to be used.

If you try to argue that, here's my response.

Ok you think trickjumping is fine. Well how about a panzerfaust glitch. Being able to shoot 10 panzers one after another over and over. A glitch is a glitch and it is cheap no matter what you say.

We shoudln't have to "Defend" against bad software writing.

Quizzle wrote: › "Trick jumping is a glitch that was unexpectedly discovered in the quake engine and has been used as an exploit".

Yes, TRICKjumping is a glitch. But when people say trickjumping, they think wall jump, or beach scaling jumps (battery). That is not trickjumping. Trick jumping is the exploit of the q3 engine allowing one to jump higher, and therefore further, using the technique known as circle strafe jumping, (and com_maxfps 43,76, and those other two)

The most common trick jump, for example, is the oasis walljump. Very simple, very easy. In any case, anyone can do it, with any settings. The truth about this jump, is that it is NOT a trick jump. The CSJ technique, nor capped FPS is needed to hop over the wall. Therefore, it is NOT a trickjump.

My point? The Q3 engine may be glitched to allow people jump to higher/farther, and that was "accidental", but the most common trick jumps are not an outcome of such exploitations. These common trick jumps are too obvious to have simply been overlooked by whoever the hell created Enemy Territory. They were more "challenges" being left to discover.

So, when you say trick jump, use the proper definition.

I go away for 6 months and come back and I miss people at point blank range and shoot 5-7 percent lower with .5-1 less HS per kill. I don't think someone who has a better shot at a slower speed would all of a sudden start missing people's heads at point blank range because the game is "faster". If that were the case, then EVERYONE would have the same problem. Unless of course, they don't usually aim for the head. In my experience, people that get better or enjoy it more when the server config changes, tend to be reasonably or even highly accurate, but mostly aim for the body.

Every pub server I've EVER played on that tried to equalize the playing field by tweaking settings whether speed or hitboxes--trying to go to ETPro hitboxes was one server's reasoning, and of course, they were nowhere NEAR ETPro hitboxes--ended up running off the players who played stock with very little config and tended to get headshots more often.

I tried another server that obviously didn't have these settings. The difference was so significant in my play from IoW that Evil Smurfs Lair banned me for simply being better than they are. The game was so smooth (and the level of comp was a good bit lower) that it was like shooting skeet before its pulled. No PB screenshots or anything, they just put "banned for wall hack" as an excuse. Evidently they must all play without speakers, without lag, and without reason.

Point being...the difference is indeed HUGE. Of course we all want our favorite server to have settings that allow us to be the best we can be. I think that setting configs to standard (heck you can set mine to standard on my machine if you want, all I need is Mouse2 to be crouch), puts everyone on an even playing field. At that point, it's either get better, deal with the fact that you nor the guy that killed you is the best ever at this game, or play on a server that doesn't tick you off.

On second thought, I tried that, and I got permanently banned with no proof, so there goes that theory. LOL

It's your server guys, I just like playing here, and know it was more fun when the settings were stock.

J

actually the posting is a little misleading. The speed is the default speed for etpub. I havent changed any of that. I know someone else had a request for the server settings. Email nort@iowclan.com with your request so i can hit a simple reply and i can send ya the server configs so you can see im not lying!

Ok, well I'll give you a dollar if you just fix the hitboxes back to the original pub hitboxes.

Help me understand something here Nervous - you played our server 6 months ago, and now you come back and say you are worse, your not hitting right, less HS, less accuracy....

....but the server settings are the same as they were 6 months ago, AFAIK....correct me if I'm wrong.

That's exactly what I am saying. Either that or there is a different version running on this server from the one's that I consider "normal" pub hitboxes. Or it's a server config issue, maybe even on their side instead of IoW's.

It's not my imagination. I've seen it happen on 3 servers, without me changing my config. KoG had it happen, Wicked, and now IoW. On the previous 2 servers, I thought they either changed the server config or upgraded to a different version of pub. One version change of pub actually was aimed at trying to get the hitboxes "more like ETPro". All I played was ETPro for 2 years, and I hated pub. I know these are not the same hitboxes as ETPro or the Pub I've played elsewhere.

If it's a config setting on the client side, then someone please let me have a LEGAL config where they don't experience this effect.

Nervous wrote: › That's exactly what I am saying. Either that or there is a different version running on this server from the one's that I consider "normal" pub hitboxes. Or it's a server config issue, maybe even on their side instead of IoW's. It's not my imagination. I've seen it happen on 3 servers, without me changing my config. KoG had it happen, Wicked, and now IoW. On the previous 2 servers, I thought they either changed the server config or upgraded to a different version of pub. One version change of pub actually was aimed at trying to get the hitboxes "more like ETPro". All I played was ETPro for 2 years, and I hated pub. I know these are not the same hitboxes as ETPro or the Pub I've played elsewhere. If it's a config setting on the client side, then someone please let me have a LEGAL config where they don't experience this effect.

Nort - any changes that would describe this behavior? Didn't we update to 2.61b or something like that because of the hackery of our settings file?

correction, as those that play etpro with me in competition will tell you. our etpub hitboxes are as close to etpro as possible. The etpub hitboxes you are describing as used to is probably the g_hitoboxes "31" setting. which effectively lowers the hitboxes to your shoulders so you get a headshot shooting around the neck area. whereas ours are set to be as close to etpro as possible so thatyou get hs's shooting at the hairline, just like in pro.

and the setting you are talking about aimed at etpro is g_realhead which we use

Ok by me. I never shoot at the neck. I played nothing but Etpro for 2+ years so when I miss someone's head, it's usually because I aimed TOO HIGH. Same thing is happening here. If there were hitsounds enabled like ETPro's (since you are trying to use similar hitboxes ), then I could tell you more. Seems I'm never getting that sharp rip sound anymore.

I'm sure you are right, I never really cared enough to look up such things. I'll probably just go back to playing only ETPro. The "ting ting ting" hitsounds make a difference to me. If people aren't going down and I'm not hearing anything, then I know I'm not hitting them at all. I'm not getting any sounds when standing point blank. I guess I'm asking why make the pub setting so MUCH like pro. Why not just load Pro and be done with it? Those hitboxes are different than pub, I know. If the head hitbox is the same size in both, it wouldn't matter. I'm aiming hairline, as I ALWAYS have.

I spec other people and even with the spread completely all the way out, they can hit people. After 4 shots, I'm not hitting much of anything.

Now I'm resorting to click click click click click click click click click click click click. Like I'm playing Galaga or something.

Thanks for the info Nort. It was lunchtime and I stepped out to get a bite to eat.

It's funny really because the admin at the last server this happened on said he was changing to try and make it "easier" and the result was the same as yours.

J