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Instruments of War <IoW> silEnT Serverdoze - wallhax at the minimum imho

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#1: doze - wallhax at the minimum imho Author: razi,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:42 pm

i'm surprised this hasn't been discussed already considering lately whenever i'm on the server and doze is playing everyone is accusing him of aimbot/wallhax yet no threads or discussion have taken place here on the forums. i've taken several demos of doze but this is the most illustrative one imho.

http://www.iowclan.net/cgi/uploads/doze-nowalls.zip

2 key points: (watch with /r_shownormals 1)

1. after he kills widowmaker in the lower tunnel he gives a short chase shooting at nothing, then heads out tracking 2 players through the wall while priming a nade and misfires killing only 1 and getting killed by hydblues.

2. hydblues hides in the corner above the first water tunnel exit..not the most common hiding spot. doze primes a nade walking up to hydblues and fires it in his direction. then he slowly enters and dinks hydblues with the akimbos.

yes good players prime nades but they usually do it routinely - i have a few spots i always toss nades but my issue here is that doze seems to be tracking people through walls while doing so. he could have guessed that hyd was hiding in that spot but i think those chances are extremely unlikely. to me it seems like doze is just taking steps to prevent his wallhack being blatantly obvious.

there was another moment yesterday where there was an engineer hiding silently not moving inside a room on fueldump and doze tracked him through the wall and walked in the room and killed him....the engy wasn't moving and there was no way that doze should have known he was there. unfortunately i was not recording at that point.

doze is pretty careful about not tracking through walls but he does slip sometimes.

i have issues with his aim as well but is another post..mainly despite having a really low sensitivity in firefights he seems to 'snap' to peoples bodies fine in the beginning.

even if doze is not hacking - he is definitely causing the server to clear out everytime he plays and many people to go spec.

discuss.

#2: Re: doze - wallhax at the minimum imho Author: BECK,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:59 pm

razi wrote: › .... no threads or discussion have taken place here on the forums.

That you can see. We have two threads and a few demos on admin forums on there. Consensus is, he's clean. He was banned for a few days pending review, but was allowed back on. Then a second thread "a second look" was posted and again, the consensus is that he's not haxing. But it has been stated by some admins that they're not going to take the chance if he starts showing bullshit again. Either he's a great player (high beta/alpha) playing on our pub for kicks - or he has a really great hax that he can easily turn on or off. Karnie posted on demo of him that seemed like he had moments of brilliance and moments of mediocrity, but if you watch them again, you can see certain instnaces where smart play will allow him to do what he does.

I will watch your demo for good measure. Who knows, maybe you caught something we didn't. Thanks for helping keep our server a fair place for all.

#3: Author: BECK,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:18 pm

I watched your demo twice, and I will admit the portions you post seem like bullshit. I mean, especially the part where he nades blues by the ladder - if he tossed a nade there everytime he ran past that spot, that'd be one thing (like you said) -- but he spawns and stops then primes a nade and tosses it around the corner - I don't see how he could have heard or seen blues there without wallhax.

Also - the part you describe with Widowmaker - seems hard for him to believe that he needed to run over to that second cave entrance to kill the allies there.

#4: Author: razi,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:37 pm

beck if possible i'd like to see the other demo's of doze that people have taken with his moments of 'brilliance'

a couple of other things i've thought of

after killing widowmaker there is nothing compelling the ordinary player with walls to suddenly double back 180 degrees and prime a nade. every map doze spawncamps as much as possible - there is no reason for me to believe he had a change of heart and wanted to make sure that the tunnels were clear from the other exit. if we take the devils argument that doze really is THAT good and could have guessed that there were unaccounted for allies at that moment that could have only been at that spot then he should have been good enough to kill both with that nade as they were sittinig ducks. the way it looks TO ME is that doze saw them but didn't want to make it too obvious he wallhacked so he fires the nade a little off and only gets 1.

the other part with blues is...by the time that doze gets to his hiding space there was an engineer that ran straight up past him up that ladder...most players even good ones would assume that by now the area is clear and safe as one of their teammate got by without an ambush but doze primes that nade ...again not close enough to kill blues since that would make his wallhack obvious but nearby enough to do some damage and then he enters and does the akimbo dink...total bs imho explainable only by wallhack.

and one more thing while i was speccing him yesterday he sends me a PM asking why amn't i playing. i entered as a different alias and didn't say a word the entire session...so why would a normal player send a spec a PM asking to play? guilty conscience much?

#5: Author: BECK,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:03 pm

These are the one's that we had already. I don't see a reason why they can't be here.

http://www.esnips.com/doc/896c371a-a9e9-4849-b5cc-baafa5d2cdba/2007-04-08-001618-goldrush

http://www.iowclan.net/cgi/uploads/doze.zip

I was very divided by these demos - my gut says hax, but it's hard to justify banning because there are cases where you can explain the things that he does just by having good vision and a sense of where the enemy is. But your demo seems to really just scream wallhax, I'd really like to hear a good explanation for the ladder kill.

I watched it twice with shownormals, but it's almost more compelling to watch it without. There is no way he could've seen Blues where he was hiding - not even through a team-members view while he was waiting to respawn - bullshit all around. Nice find.

#6: Author: Quizzle,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:11 pm

I dunno, I was kicking his ass with Rnade yesterday. Everytime I hit him with it, he couldn't believe it. ;]

#7: Author: BECK,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:14 pm

Quizzle wrote: › I dunno, I was kicking his ass with Rnade yesterday. Everytime I hit him with it, he couldn't believe it. ;]

Just cause you're rnading him doesn't mean he's not wallhaxing - watch Razi's demo and explain both of those situations. Without shownormals on, the very first minute of the demo he kills like two or three coming out of the CP area - weird thing is - he doesn't stop shooting after he kills the first first guy - and the other two guys just happen to run into his bullets? No, he saw them coming.

#8: Author: StEVoNuB420,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:19 pm

I think its another case of that Pig smiley guy,and should be handled in the same way. Beck knows what I mean.We cant have him clearing the server out either.

#9: Author: Quizzle,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:23 pm

BECK wrote: ›

Quizzle wrote: › I dunno, I was kicking his ass with Rnade yesterday. Everytime I hit him with it, he couldn't believe it. ;]

Yeah I know, I just wanted to brag ;]

#10: Author: epIc,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:37 pm

Pig smiley, aka bbq, are legit. Too bad people get banned for other reasons then cheating. I for one don't agree with it. Our pub server has minimal rules and I have no idea why we would try to keep someone away because of the risk of cleaning out the server. Hacking is one thing, but banning in order to keep someone away without them being caught cheating is stupid.

#11: Author: BECK,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:42 pm

I'll be a big hippocrit here.

I agree with epIc - I don't want to have a server that says 'you can play here unless you're REALLY REALLY good'. Yeah, I banned the bbq guy after three weeks of demos like this one showing up, and I can't go 5 seconds playing on the server without getting a PM about him.

But --- after watching razi's demo, it's hard to say that he's not wallhaxing - what do you think epIc? If we ban, it would be for hax IMO, not because he's clearing the server.

#12: Author: epIc,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:58 pm

I was just commenting on Nubby's post. A ban for anything besides hax is totally stupid. I spend a lot of my nights specing DoZe anyways. I'm no longer going to say anything on this matter, I'm going to ignore peoples complaints untill I see something for myself.

After reviewing the demo, I saw NOTHING. HYDblues got owned in a hiding spot used a lot on SNL and ET-Core. I know this because Infidel (bbq) and I were havin fun killin each other with FG42s and he hid there a lot.

In the beginning where the 3 guys came out, he DID stop shooting. It wasn't a continuous fire.

Watching again for more points.

EDIT: The spot where he primed a nade for HYDblues, you can hear an extra set of footsteps, but only a few.

#13: Author: Quazi,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:11 pm

I asked widow yesterday if that guy is clear cuz I was VERY VERY suspicious against him.

He took EVERYONE with EVERYTHING in EVERY single moment and way he wanted to.

I played with many great players, they owned me hard in many different kinds, I experianced almost every kind of death (hrhrhr) but never seen such a thing from a legit guy. He head 8 pistol kill and 68 (?) akimbo acc on fuel yesterday (ok, yes, great players can do things like that) but when he took k43 and cops he was like a complete freak, jumping out of nowhere and killing people in places where he couldn't expect em.

Just my 2 cents.

#14: Author: Fuzzy Burrito,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:26 pm

I'm leaning 70/30, hacking/legit respectively on this one. I didn't watch Razi's demo, but I have made my own collection of 4 + SP's.
If you:
Ban him - Fine, doesn't hurt my feelings
Leave him be - Fine, doesn't hurt my feelings. Just don't expect me to be on the server with him.

I say it be treated the same as BBQ. There has always been fragtastic players on the IoW server, who own left and right; and we haven't banned them. Just DoZe is causing issues/constant rambling. I can't even stand it, and I don't have to listen to near as much of it as BECK and the rest of the admins.

As you wish.

#15: Author: razi,

You have posted in this forum: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:43 pm

epic: fine if u wanna explain the second point by the fact that some people do camp that spot and hydblues had to have gone somewhere after killing doze the previous death. the extra set of footsteps are those of the engy running ahead and climbing the ladder, not hydblues....(i'm still personally not convinced tbh)

however i can't justify the previous sequence where he kills widowmaker, drops down, chases ahead a few steps and then turns 180 degrees around, tracks the guys running down the exit with his primed nade?

Instruments of War <IoW> silEnT Serverdoze - wallhax at the minimum imho

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